This is our second “On the Record” where I get to talk to professionals still actively working in the fields of process server, private investigator or peripherally linked to the legal industry. Today’s interview is a lot of fun.
Traci Brown is the #3 body language expert in the world and a leader in training people to increase sales by detecting deception. She’s a frequent guest on TV interpreting the body language of criminals and politicians. (And sometimes both labels describe the same person!)
She even helps lawyers pick and persuade a jury using body language.
Traci Brown
Body Language Expert & Author
Website: https://www.bodylanguagetrainer.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/BodyLanguageSpeaker
Transcript
Chris: There you are. How are you doing?
Traci: Good, good! I’m trying to get my camera right here. Sometimes the… the Zoom goes a little crazy, so…
Chris: I understand. You got a… you got a Brunswick bowling PIN behind you. You don’t see those very often.
Traci: Let me… I do! I, um, there’s a story behind it. Do you want it now, or do you want it during the, uh…
Chris: Uh, we, we can do it on the thing there, um, and I appreciate your questions and your, and your intro, and I’m gonna do all that, too, and I appreciate you being on here.
Traci: Yeah, sorry, I… I don’t know if I sent it prior, and I was just like, oh my gosh, I don’t know, anyway.
Chris: Yeah, you said it… now, I know that your book was written a few years ago, do you want me to say hot off the presses?
Traci: Um… Uh, you know, I’m right at the crossroads now of, um… I just finished my new book, and it’s in…
Chris: Okay.
Traci: I… what… what I would like to do is say, yeah, I have a book, it’s awesome, and we can tease a new one.
Chris: Okay.
Traci: So, uh, because I have something really cool that I’m gonna do with it. And I just want to get people to sign up for my newsletter, um, because it’s so cool, and it’s so top secret, and no one has done this before with a book. Uh… I just can’t say what it is right now.
Chris: Well, then don’t, but I mean, the information gap is a great thing when you’re setting up a.
Traci: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Chris: a story, right? So, that’s…
Traci: Yep, mhm.
Chris: That’s cool. Well, again, thank you for being on here. Well, I’ll tell you what, why don’t I, um…
Traci: Yeah.
Chris: My plan is to always do audio, but if this works great, you’ve got a great background, I might do Zoom, and I forgot to send you a media release, so I’ll have to send you that before we can do that. It’s not a big deal.
Traci: Oh, it’s fine. Whatever. I’m not worried.
Chris: I just… I’m surrounded by lawyers in my life, so the, um… you probably are too. So, so…
Traci: I have a few, I do have a couple, yeah.
Chris: Yeah, but I will definitely link to your website, and do all that kind of fun stuff, and…
Traci: Okay.
Chris: And we’re gaining about 2 to 3 subscribers a day, so, I mean, it’s a new project, and uh, but it seems to.
Traci: Oh, cool!
Chris: be resonating with people, so that’ll be fun, so… cool. All right, so I’ll tell you what, uh, let me just… let me just get started here.
Traci: I like it! That’s good.
Chris: All right, well, Traci, I’m glad you’re here. Thank you.
Traci: Thanks for having me, this is great!
Chris: Well, listen, for folks that don’t know Traci Brown, she’s the number 3 body language expert in the world, and a leader in training people to increase the detecting deception. I tried to say that, like, 3 or 4 times, but that’s a tongue twister for me, alright?
Traci: It is! Mm-hmm.
Chris: She’s a frequent guest on TV interpreting body language, and I was just watching another one of her newsletters. She puts videos on there, so I highly recommend becoming a part of her newsletter. But she interprets the body language of criminals and politicians, and sometimes those are the same things in today’s world, right? She even helps lawyers, um, pick and persuade using body language as far as they’re picking their juries.
Traci: Mm-hmm.
Chris: And she’s a former member of the U.S. National Cycling Team. Is that what I saw?
Traci: That is true, 100%.
Chris: Well, I’ve got to ask you about that, because I used to ride a bike 4 and 5,000 miles a year.
Traci: Okay, all right, so did I.
Chris: Yeah, I bet you did, if you were on… I was just doing it to go from beer to beer and barbecue to barbecue to keep the weight off, but it was… it was a lot of fun, but… You’ve got your book, How to Detect Lies and Fraud and Identity Theft?
Traci: Mm-hmm.
Chris: And… Are you gonna tease the new book, or are we gonna hold that secret right now?
Traci: I have… okay, so… I’m gonna tease the book, and I’m really gonna tease how I’m gonna roll it out. So, um… Yeah, so, so far the working title is, um, called Watch What They Say. And it’s… at best, it’ll come out summer 2027.
Chris: Okay.
Traci: because publishers are glacial in speed, and I have the coolest. Book promo to go along with it that anyone has ever done in the history and I am not kidding you, I am not exaggerating, it is the coolest. book promo that anyone has ever done in the history of the world, and I am… I am doing it, and I can’t tell you what it is yet. Um, but that’s why people want to sign up for my newsletter. And of course, there’s gonna be cool stuff in my newsletter between now and when I can announce that.
Chris: Where is that newsletter? So, give us the URL, just for anybody that wants it.
Traci: Oh, uh, you can go to bodylanguageTrainer.com, and, um, it’s down at the… at the, uh, bottom, you’ll see it there in the link to sign up, or. Anytime I post anything on my TikToks or my, um, Facebook, the link is there.
Chris: And we’re gonna link to it in this article, too. So, I mean, so that’ll be great. And, as I understand it, you’re an executive producer of a TV series?
Traci: As well. Mm-hmm. I got one in the works in Hollywood, yeah, and so, um, the working title of that is… Um, we just changed it. Uh, truth be told.
Chris: Truth be told, okay.
Traci: Yeah, mm-hmm. So, um, you know, Hollywood’s a fickle place, so knock on wood. That, uh, something cool happens with it.
Chris: Yeah, well, that is a lot of fun. So, let’s circle back to this bicycling thing. You were a pro at bicycling. Is that the deal? How did you get into that? How did you get out of it? What did you experience?
Traci: Yeah. Yeah, mm-hmm. Oh, well, uh, that led me directly into being a body language expert, um, because I learned quickly that the core of cycling, like the elite level. is for little people, and I’m a big person, and uh… you know, 5’9”, I don’t think overly big, but when you race against elf-sized people. Um, you have to do some things differently to start to keep up and eventually win, and I was able to predict what was going to happen before. Before it actually happened, maybe before even people knew they were gonna make their move, and getting that half a second, uh, jump on what was about to happen was what. allowed me to, to eventually keep up and, and uh… and then, and then win, and I needed… and I needed it, here’s the thing, because. I had jumped into the deep end of cycling without even knowing it. There was this guy, he kept showing up to the races, uh, and, well, he was there in the training rides, you know, because you always train with the men, but every now and then, I’d jump in the races and race right alongside him. His name was Lance, and uh, he was really fast. Lance Armstrong!
Chris: I was gonna say, did he have any medical conditions later on? Yeah, yeah, so…
Traci: He did have a few, so… excuse me. Anyway, um, he’s no joke really fast, but I had to be able to anticipate what was going to happen, so I, because the problem is in cycling. The problem, and I know that you know this from doing a little bit of riding yourself, it’s not like, I don’t know, if you’re playing softball or soccer or whatever, you’re having a bad day, you know, it’s not that you sit on the bench, who cares? You know, it’s not that big of a… Big of a deal. When… in cycling, if you don’t… if you don’t cut it, they leave you behind, and you’ve got to find your way home, and you are exhausted anyway, and I’m talking wind, rain, hail.
Chris: Oh.
Traci: Uh, heat, cold, all of it. Snow? And, uh, I was tired of that, and so I had to really focus in on what I did know and what I could use, and that was understanding body language at a really deep level. But the thing is, I didn’t realize I was doing it. Until, um, I had already retired. And, uh, and I was… I was watching the Tour de France with a friend. I’m like, oh, look, here’s what’s gonna happen. And she’s like, don’t you understand you’ve been doing this body language thing for.
Chris: Yeah.
Traci: way longer than you ever thought, and I was like, oh, it hit me hard! So, um… Uh, so I, you know, I’ve been reading people since I was 14 years old, and uh, now, you know, I’ve gone into business with those skills, and I’ve been lucky enough to train right alongside our country’s top law enforcement. uh, FBI police, uh, and, and, you know, military, um, Green Berets and Navy, and, um, and I’ve… and it’s using those same skills to build your bottom line, save you time, money, and energy.
Chris: Well, we’re not gonna make this whole interview about bicycling, but what was a tell? Like, you’re sitting by… you’re sitting in the draft.
Traci: Uh-huh.
Chris: And, and you… and you… what was a tell that you can share?
Traci: Uh, well, everyone… and this is the same in the boardroom, okay? It’s the same at work, it’s the same at home. Everyone has their own unique tells. And when you can start to understand everyone’s uniqueness. Um, then you can start to anticipate what goes on. So, with some people, it would be a sudden change in the angle of their back. Right? Um, other people… other times, um, I would notice, um. You know, when it gets hot, it didn’t work in the winter as much, but when it gets hot, and people start to sweat, if there’s a line of salt. Uh, just under the… under the elastic band of their shorts. I knew I could attack and they wouldn’t come with me. Because they were… they were busted. So, um, little bitty things like, like that, like when someone starts drinking too much, when, um…
Chris: Yeah.
Traci: Sometimes you can notice when people become sloppy and they start bouncing around a little bit. then, um, that’s a tell as well, that they’re just, like, they’re struggling, right? So, um, and of course, I had to understand, like, the flow of the pack, and what was about to happen next, because, um, and you know this too, and I think it’s true in the rest of the world. If you’re not moving up, you’re moving back. That’s just it, you can’t, you can’t sit still in the pack and be like, all right, I’m good. As soon as you do that, you get dumped out the back. It just doesn’t work. Like, someone will gap you, and then. And then you gotta go around them, and then you’re fighting to get back to the front, so… Always, if you’re not moving up, you’re moving back.
Chris: Yeah, you described all of my bicycling tells. I was constantly bonking. Just kidding. So, it was a lot of fun. So, hey! you work with all kinds of investigations. You help financial and insurance groups spot lies and therefore prevent fraud. What are some of the easy ways that anyone can use these tools we’re talking about.
Traci: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Chris: to stop, you know, to find the lies and stop the losses. I mean, give us real practicality.
Traci: Well, okay, so if someone nods their head yes, this means yes, okay? And if they shake their head no, this means no. And, um, you know, a perfect example of this right now is, um, super timely, it’s the Clintons.
Chris: Right.
Traci: when… because they just released all of their, uh, deposition to Congress, or testimony… I don’t know if it’s a deposition or testimony. Um, but, uh, you know, Bill Clinton got asked, did you, uh, have any sexual, uh, contact with anyone Jeffrey Epstein introduced you to? And he very clearly says, no. He nods his head, yes, right? So, what happens is, during deception, we go into cognitive overload.
Chris: Okay.
Traci: And, um, the, uh, prefrontal cortex, like the adult, like the newest part of our brain. starts to take over functions that it shouldn’t be doing, right? Because it’s having to fabricate all this information, and um… and also, the body doesn’t want to keep a lie in. It’s very expensive energetically.
Chris: Yeah.
Traci: Like, like, the brain is a… the brain is a big energy hog, and so if you ask it to deceive, right, it’s having to keep the lie in, it’s having to create. Energy, uh, like, to sell the concept, it’s having to add emotions. And so, the system just melts down, but it’s in these little, tiny ways. And so when you can… when you can pick up on, on that, that’s when you can. you can, uh… because it’s not always about creating these gotcha moments, right? It’s… it’s really about… Knowing more than is immediately obvious, and navigating around that so that you can begin to, um… uh, like, get the right answer out of people, but more importantly, inform your decisions, right? Because you can just do something different, like knowing what you know.
Chris: So, I’m going to go off script a little bit here, because I want to dig here if we can, if that’s okay, because what I found as an investigator is if I asked enough questions, people couldn’t help but talk.
Traci: Okay, let’s do it. Oh, yeah.
Chris: And, and what I didn’t understand was how… because I’m a little bit like you, you said. you could tell, but you didn’t know how or why. You were reading these kinds of things, right? So…
Traci: Mm-hmm.
Chris: When you’re learning how to… to identify this in real time, how was it for you that you began to realize, I’m picking this stuff up. And I’m transferring it, and I’m making it knowledge that I can now use. Do you see what I’m trying to say, or am I asking… I’m not asking a very good question, because I didn’t know why I was good at it, but then as I began to learn it by seeing the same patterns over again, I began to then put it into groups.
Traci: Um… Well, when I was really able to put it into play, uh, a lot more than just from bike racing was, uh, because I’m trained as a hypnotist. I saw clients.
Chris: Okay.
Traci: for 8 years, and I was able to… because here’s the thing, when people go to therapy, okay, for one, no one wants to go to therapy, no one wants to be there, okay? Uh, just bottom line thing. And, um, when they are there, there’s a shame factor that’s in play, okay? And it’s… it’s the same factor, like, if you’re interviewing someone in an investigation, right? There’s a. There’s a shame factor at play. And so that can, can lead people to stretch the truth, or minimize, or, um… what have you. Now, as a therapist, right, I need to know exactly what’s going on. so I can get them across the hump, right? Because they didn’t come… they didn’t come in. To be the same. Like, they came, they, they walked in one way, and they paid me money so they could walk out another way.
Chris: No.
Traci: And, uh, and if they’re not being straight with me, I have to know that, so that I can… so I can get them to point B. Like, and it is amazing, the amount of people that come in. Don’t want to tell you the whole thing. And I got really good at figuring out when they weren’t telling me everything. And then I got really good at pulling the truth out of them. And so… so this whole thing started, right, just in the sake of… of results. And, um, and of course, now I do… I do different, like, bigger things, uh, with it, but, um… that’s, that’s when I started to realize, I’m like, okay, wait, I’m getting good at this.
Chris: Yeah, it’s fun to think back about how those progressions happened, and that’s, that’s why I was just asking you, because I think some of our readers or listeners are probably.
Traci: Yeah.
Chris: you’re reading detective stories for a reason. Like, you kind of get into trying to figure that out. So, is body language the same for big and small lies?
Traci: Mm-hmm. It is. Uh, no, well, yeah, it is. It’s more subtle for the small ones, okay? So…
Chris: Okay, tell me more.
Traci: So, body language doesn’t… so for one… so, first, first thing, let’s get this… really straight. Body language by itself doesn’t indicate a whole lot, okay? However, it’s that intricate dance with the words, and uh… and with your tone, and with your volume, and with your pacing. That all of a sudden, it can create a big… more complete picture. So, um…
Chris: Right.
Traci: Body language, it doesn’t scream at you, it leaks. And I think that every now and then it’ll scream but, but, but most, mostly. it leaks. And so…
Chris: That sounds like a line for your TV show. I’m telling you, that line jumps out at me.
Traci: Yeah, well, good, good! Call the people in Hollywood and tell them to light a fire under them. Man, I’ve never met people who have less urgency than people in Hollywood. Um, so, uh, point being is that you really have to raise your sensory acuity. That’s how much you’re paying attention to what goes on outside of you. Uh, to see these things, because most of us go, um, go through life, like, paying… So much attention to ourselves, we just don’t pay attention to what’s going on outside us. And so, and here’s the thing. It’s… I understand how difficult it is to do, just in daily life, because one of the things that, um. over the last, let’s say, year, I’ve been, uh, really working on focusing on, uh, because it’s very… it’s very… accurate tell of stress is someone’s blink rate, and it’s not something that I was necessarily originally trained to watch. And, and so I’ve been, I’ve been trying to, to, to focus on that more and it is hard to, um. like, take that new piece and pay attention, right? And now that I’m getting it, it’s, it’s a lot easier, right? But even though, like, you can know.
Chris: Yeah.
Traci: All the stuff in the world, you can memorize every book ever written on the topic, but to put it into play. takes conscious effort. So, um, that’s, you know, in my keynotes, because a lot of what I do is. Is, uh, speak to associations and corporations to help them integrate this into their sales and negotiations and hiring and things like that. Um, like, I make sure in my talk that people have an experience of using it, but it’s up to you to keep using it. Because, uh, like, there’s so much uncertainty going on these days. Uh, with everything around us, and whether it’s economically, politically, or even online, like, we are so… we are more deceived than ever. More than ever! And, um, knowing the truth. is key to making the best decisions that you can, right? And… and… and moving forward powerfully, because every… every big, um… Like, like, leadership decision, like, has an impact and it, like, with dollars, time and money and, and so it’s super important. To best inform that decision immediately, right away, so that. Um, you’re working with all the information that you have.
Chris: Yeah, alright. Great, great words there, and by the way, now I’m really self-conscious about my blinking, so, like…
Traci: Well, the thing about blinks, here’s the thing about blinks. There’s… there’s two things that you can’t manually control. Uh, one is your blink rate. And the other is your forehead. And so, when you can start to watch those 2. body parts. I was gonna call them, like, items, but when you can watch those two things, you’re gonna get a really accurate view.
Chris: You’re…
Traci: Of… of someone’s emotional state, and what they’re comfortable with and what they’re not. Like, because here’s the thing. Uh, Chris, is that signs of deception are… there’s no, like, sign of deception. It’s what you’re looking for is a sign of stress. And stress is… for people who are not, uh, like…
Chris: Mm-hmm.
Traci: Neurologically, uh…
Chris: Yeah.
Traci: Like, like a psychopath or something like that. Uh, then that’s gonna be a really accurate read on what’s going on for someone.
Chris: So your best people to interview for body language are bald people, because we have lots of forehead, and you don’t have to worry about doing that.
Traci: Yeah, for sure, but even if you don’t, I mean, yeah, the worst ones are the bangs. I’m like, get rid of the bangs! Or, um… Botox is another one that’s… that’ll, um…
Chris: Oh, yeah.
Traci: That can throw a wrench in… in, uh… But even, even so, like, here’s the thing, I don’t have a thing against Botox, I like it, I think it’s great. I, um, I think it can lead to a really good look, so I’m not getting down on people or judging or anything. Um, and… but here’s the thing, there’s always an area outside the affected area that will move. So, so don’t think, like, if you, if you find someone whose eyebrows are cemented into place, there’s other tells, um, like, head to toe, but definitely in the forehead, too, you can still see stuff.
Chris: Got it. Fantastic. So… How do we start to use this info at work and get real answers that we need out of customers and coworkers?
Traci: Okay, so to get answers, here’s the key, and I want you to consider this, and I know you know this, but my mentor in the FBI. He’s an FBI trainer, retired now. He goes, look, it’s all about information recovery. So, all you gotta do is keep people talking. Just keep them talking. And uh… and you can do, like, little bitty things, just elicitation things, and just say, really? Or, no way, right? Like, little things like that will keep people talking. You can even tell them information that you know is. empirically wrong, because people want to help, and they want to, uh, they want to correct you, right? So, one of the ones that I’ve heard was back in, um…
Chris: Yep. Yep.
Traci: in Vietnam. Okay, so the U.S. Navy’s in Vietnam, and the soldiers get a little bit of leave, and they go to the bar, and, you know, spies are everywhere. They’re everywhere. And, you know, they don’t wear fedoras and trench coats, you know, they don’t.
Chris: So…
Traci: Uh, and all they gotta do is keep them talking, and they said something like, oh, I heard the propellers on, on, uh, your boat was, you know, 10 feet wide, and, and they’re like, you know, they’re a little drunk. They’re like, no, no, they’re 15. Right? So… so, those are… that’s, like, just a little bit…
Chris: Yeah.
Traci: Of how you can keep people talking.
Chris: Yeah, when I would interview people, or especially when I was skip tracing, my challenge was to get my answer without asking them the question. Like, keep… like, ask all the peripheral questions, but they will volunteer the information eventually.
Traci: Uh-huh. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Oh yeah, yeah, they want to help. Skip tracing, tell me about that!
Chris: So… Well, you know, when I was an investigator in Maryland, I worked Maryland, D.C, and Virginia. I was a process server as well.
Traci: Uh…
Chris: And, um, I was 22, 23 the first time I did it, and it turned out I was pretty good at it, and they kept sending me out, because I could talk to people, and I could be whoever that person needed me to be.
Traci: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Oh, okay.
Chris: Um, you know, I even talk about it in one of my articles, that if you need me to be a little rough and tumble and cuss, I could do that. If you need me to be very sweet. you know, friend of your son who I was trying to find, I could do that. Um, just… and if you just talk to them long enough and ask them enough peripheral questions, they’ll generally give you the answer that you came for, and…
Traci: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah, behavioral flexibility, that is key.
Chris: Well, I love that term. We, you know, we called it pretext.
Traci: Uh-huh.
Chris: But my soul called it lying. I was always in inner conflict about all of us, if that makes any sense. That’s…
Traci: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Chris: after 9 years, I’d had enough of it, but I was good at it, which is kind of a scary thing, you know, so…
Traci: Yeah. It is, I gotta watch out for you.
Chris: Well, we’re gonna talk more about, um, a couple questions I had for you, but tell me about the Brunswick bowling pen.
Traci: Oh, my bowling PIN behind me. Okay, so I, um, I’m, uh, grew up in a family of bowlers, we’re all bowlers, and my uncle is the best one. Out of all of us. And so he has… he’s in Arkansas, and he has a, um, an attic that’s kind of like a… it’s like a museum. All the toys from the 1950s growing up are there, and so when me and my brother were little, we’d go up there and we’d get the little, you know, the marionettes and whatever that they had. And we had this bowling PIN up there, and I… it just blew my mind. It blew my mind, like. how could you get a bowling PIN? Like, you know, because I’m little, I’m like, because then, you know, you wouldn’t be able to set all the pins just right, because you’d be down a PIN, you know, and like… like, I just… it just blew my mind.
Chris: Yeah. I get it.
Traci: And so, I’ve always wanted a bowling PIN. I’ve always wanted one. And just after the pandemic, I got asked to speak at the Bowling Proprietors. association. And I gave my talk, it went great, and right before I was done, I was like, look, y’all. And I told him the story, and I said, I really want a bowling PIN. I will buy it. Can I buy a bowling PIN from someone in here? And the bowling lanes right over here by me, Chipper’s Lanes in Broomfield, Colorado, and mind you, we were in. Louisville, Kentucky, because, you know, conferences are everywhere. Uh, the girl from there came up, and she said.
Chris: Okay.
Traci: We would love to host you for a night of bowling on us, and we will give you a PIN, and that. And that is my PIN, and I’m so proud of it, and I just love it.
Chris: Well, so you, you lead a pretty cool life. You get to go talk to people and train with people about something you’re impassioned about, right? And so, what I’ve seen from your newsletters, that’s what you’re sharing with people.
Traci: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm, I do. Mm-hmm, yeah.
Chris: And whether they ever use it or not, you’re sharing a really useful skill, and. It’s good entertainment.
Traci: Well, it is. People call my newsletters juicy, and so I’m always talking about someone in the news. who’s, like, showing these signs, and they’re probably being deceptive. And, you know, the more and more video that we have out, um, these days, the more there is to comment on. So, I do that once a month. And, um, and people can join, and I know you’re gonna put the link in the, uh… in your comments or in the article. Um, and… but if you’re hungrier than that. Um, every… every day, I post on Facebook or TikTok. And, um, I’m getting a huge following going. I’ve only been posting every day since about… let’s call the first of… let’s call it the first of December on Facebook. I’d been doing it kind of randomly on TikTok, like, and gaining a little bit. I got… okay, so let’s back up.
Chris: Okay.
Traci: I got kicked off TikTok. For my, uh, analysis of Harry and Meghan. Um, and I have… I believe that they have someone on the inside. at TikTok, who pulled everything, uh, off, and I’ll tell you, it was… it was, uh, February 2nd. 2024, I believe, was the date, whenever his book came out.
Chris: Okay.
Traci: Because I was… man, I was racking up the views, like, 600,000, 700,000. Uh, and I didn’t say, hey, look, he’s lying, so you should hate him. I was like, hey, here’s an example of someone who’s holding back information, someone who’s not being 100%. Truthful, all, you know, um… I think justifiable, right? Uh, but Harry and Meghan did not like it, and the reason I know that they have someone on the inside of TikTok. Is because on that day, uh, my friend who was kind of helping me craft all of this, like, you know, just strategy-wise. she… I’m like, look, my account’s gone. It’s not coming back. And… and she got on there, and you could not find anything about Harry or Meghan on TikTok at all. on that date. So they had it, they had everything, they, they scrubbed, uh, TikTok. So, anyway, so I, uh… Excuse me. So I was like, why am I putting all this effort into this, hoping to build something here, if it’s all gonna be just taken away?
Chris: Right.
Traci: Uh, and so I just quit for a year, and then I kind of got back doing it. I was like, why not? I have a little extra time. Anyway, it’s starting to blow up, um, but I post the same thing on Facebook, and that’s the one that’s really going. So since, um… I started out…
Chris: So you got the kids and the old people.
Traci: Yeah, yeah. So, so I… so, and Facebook, for real, it is old people, like, the 65 plus crowd loves me. You know, because I can see all the stats, but since, um…
Chris: Yeah.
Traci: since December, and we’re talking… today is, what, March 5th or so? Um… Since December, I’ve gained… I’ll give you the latest number, um… 66,000 followers, and 4 million views?
Chris: There you go.
Traci: Um, hang on, let me get you the number here.
Chris: And this is on TikTok, or…
Traci: This is on Facebook, 4.7 million views in the last month. So, it’s going somewhere, that’s good. Um…
Chris: Facebook. Well, I’ll have to… I’ll have to look you up. I’m gonna… I’m gonna… it’s a… it’s a personal goal to die without ever being on TikTok, but that’s just…
Traci: Well, I had that goal too, but then I was like, maybe I could make some money. But…
Chris: That’s just me. I get it. I get it.
Traci: Um, but I’ll tell ya, um, the Chinese, uh, I don’t think they’re that good at math, because, uh… I went viral the last couple days talking about the McDonald’s CEO.
Chris: Uh-huh.
Traci: And, you know, because he ate that burger, yeah, and so I’m like, well, how does this actually come together? Like, why… why are we feeling this big mismatch? And so I did an analysis, and so that’s almost 700,000 views right now, and they… and I started out.
Chris: That was funny.
Traci: I don’t know if I’m throwing around too many numbers. I started out at 44,000 followers. They told me I got almost 20,000 followers from this one video, and my follower number is only up to 50,000, so something’s… something’s like…
Chris: Yeah, well, I love numbers, but they don’t always match, so that’s… it’s the trends I look for, but that’s…
Traci: Well, they definitely don’t match on TikTok, so…
Chris: Well, I mean, so, in my life, you know, I never stopped being an investigator, I just did it differently.
Traci: Uh-huh.
Chris: I became a photographer because I learned how to take pictures of people doing things they shouldn’t be doing.
Traci: Oh, okay, alright.
Chris: And that led into… my photography life, and then that led into my real estate life, which I’ve had for the last 26 years, but I’ve still always investigated the numbers.
Traci: Okay. Yeah.
Chris: The profitability, all these different kinds of things that makes it fun.
Traci: Well, start investing on TikTok, that… that would help me out!
Chris: Well, TikTok, I’ve never… I’ve never quite figured out there, but… so, what closing thoughts do you have for us today? Because I think everybody should be on the newsletter, right? And so, but…
Traci: Uh-huh, yeah, yeah, sign up for the newsletter, mhm.
Chris: Yeah, and that’s, um, uh, bodylanguetrainer.com.
Traci: BodyLanguageTrainer.com. You gotta scroll down, it’s at the bottom, or just find me on… on Facebook and… or TikTok, and it’ll be there, too.
Chris: Okay. Okay, but what closing thoughts would you have for us? For the people that read.
Traci: Um, and it’s, it’s…
Chris: you know, the process server chronicles. They’re probably interested in stories, they’re probably interested in… I do a little thing on there about behavioral detective, you know, like, the tells and that kind of thing, but what…
Traci: Uh-huh. Uh-huh, uh-huh.
Chris: What is it you would leave with the readers?
Traci: I… I gotta tell you, it’s just one thing, it’s pay attention or pay with pain. That is it.
Chris: Hmm.
Traci: And that is the bottom line. Pay your attention, Bill. You will get a lot further. In whatever area of life that you… if you want, whether it’s, you know, the real estate you’re talking about, or investigating, or what have you. the information is there. The question is, are you gonna… are you gonna pay attention? Are you gonna use it?
Chris: So, so, you know, you ought to just become a writer, or a screenwriter or something. You’ve got pay with pain, or pay attention, or pay with pain. I love that. And then body language doesn’t scream, it leaks.
Traci: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Chris: Those are… those are Mickey Spillane-type lines. Great job.
Traci: That’s good. Well, I’ll tell you what, on my, um… when people sign up for my newsletter, you get all my videos, because I do have some Hollywood thriller, uh, level videos that I’ve done, and they’re, they’re keynote promos. Uh, so I sneak that in there, but there’s a plot in the last one that I did, I got 2 of them, and I’ll… I’ll do a third. Uh, shortly. The, uh… and I do have a writer in Hollywood who helps me out. She, um… She’s amazing, and uh… like, she was a VP at HBO, she’s written for the Hallmark Channel, I mean, she’s… She’s really something. Anyway, uh, where was I going with that? Is, uh, yes. uh, to more, um, Hollywood-type stuff, because it’s so exciting. Anyway, you can see those on my website, um, you can see them on my, on my YouTube, wherever. you wanna go, and when you sign up for my newsletter, you’ll get… you’ll get the details on why I’m doing another one, but I gotta… it’s a big cliffhanger, and if you haven’t seen it, you’re gonna… you’re gonna be like, oh, when are we gonna get the next one?
Chris: So, all right, well, that’s fantastic. Traci, I really want to thank you for being here today. I really…
Traci: Hey, thanks for having me! This is super nice.
Chris: I really do. Fantastic. Well, listen, we’ll catch you around, keep reading, keep writing, keep talking.
Traci: Absolutely.
Chris: Boom. Done. So, yeah, we… Thank you so much!
Traci: Cool, we did it! Cut! We’re done. Awesome! Yeah, yeah, for sure. Um, you know, let me know how… how everything shakes out, and I know this is… this is new. When I… when I do my, um… when I do my book launch, maybe… maybe we can circle back and… and, uh, help with that, because it’s going to be… it’s going to be really something.
Chris: Yeah. Well, that’ll be fun, and I’m gonna send you the media release now, so I don’t forget.
Traci: Hmm. Okay.
Chris: And, um, what I would say is it’s probably 4 to 6 weeks before I release this.
Traci: Okay.
Chris: Uh, maybe a little bit sooner, I already have another one lined up to go out here soon. But it’s, um, we’re having some fun.
Traci: Okay. Uh-huh. Good! Oh, I love it. I can’t wait to hear it!
Chris: Okay. Alright, I’ll talk to you later, Traci.
Traci: Alright, cool, see ya! Bye.
Chris: Alright, bye-bye.
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